Transcript: Strong Body, Strong Mind - Sally Gunnell’s Guide to Midlife Wellbeing

INTRODUCTION

Sally Gunnell: The biggest part of a change within your body is just to get up, be active, and get away from your desk. Do 10 minutes here, 20 minutes there. Walk the dog in the morning, go out for lunch, and just keep moving.

It’s all those little pieces, those 1% improvements, that make all the difference. There’s no point in doing all this exercise and then eating absolute rubbish because you’re not going to make a difference. Or doing all your exercise and eating well, but then only having two or three hours of sleep a night.

The biggest thing I would say to people is that it’s about consistency. It’s all those little adjustments that help shift the habits and the mindset to make this a way of life.

Paul Sutton: Sally Gunnell is one of the most well-known and well-respected athletes of her generation. In 1992, she won an Olympic gold medal in the 400 metres hurdles, and she remains the only woman to have held Olympic, World, Commonwealth, and European titles, as well as the world record, at the same time.

After retiring from athletics due to injury in 1997, Sally worked in the media but later moved into corporate speaking. She now runs a health and wellbeing company that focuses on holistic wellbeing, and on today's show, we're talking about how to live a healthier lifestyle in midlife and beyond.

So, just how important is being active, and if we are, do we actually have to go to the gym? How do exercise, nutrition, sleep, and breathwork all fit together holistically? And what impact does physical exercise have on mental wellbeing and positivity?

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PS: I'm Paul Sutton, and this is Middle Man, the show for midlife men and the people who love them.

EPISODE

PS: Thank you very much for doing this today, Sally. I really appreciate your time. I specifically wanted to talk to you about feeling good in midlife because, obviously, you were an incredibly successful athlete and clearly know your way around fitness and the body.

But the reason for wanting to talk to you is that you’re at the same sort of stage of life as me and the listeners of this podcast. So, my assumption is that you’ll have a more, let’s call it, pragmatic view of fitness, health, and wellbeing than some others I could have spoken to. For example, I could have spoken to a really jacked 20-year-old fitness trainer, but, I mean, I’m a 52-year-old man with three kids. I hate the gym, if I’m honest, and that sort of stuff just doesn’t resonate with me. So that’s the reason I wanted to talk to you.

Thank you for making the time. Now, I know you retired from athletics a while back and did a lot of media work. How and why did you start transitioning to working in corporate wellbeing?

SG: I think it was always a natural sort of thing. I started off speaking much more around motivation and high performance, but everybody kept asking me, “What should I be doing? I hate exercise. I’ve got no energy. I’m hitting a certain age, I’m putting on weight,” and people just wanted advice. For me personally, I was going through exactly the same thing. Just because you’ve been a top-level athlete, that stops the day you retire. Then you’re on a very different journey, understanding how your body changes, realising you can’t do what you used to do, and all of those sorts of things.

So, I started speaking more about wellbeing, being the best version of ourselves, and realising how what we eat, how we sleep, and how we exercise affect our day-to-day mood, productivity, and all of those things. There were things I could draw on from my athletics career, thinking, “What would I have done then? How would I have navigated this part of life?” and applying that now. That’s where I’ve been going, and, yeah, I love it.

PS: Okay, so that transition you’ve described—giving up athletics and obviously not training like you used to—did you find it a bit of a struggle? Or did you just think, “I’ve done this for 30 years, I don’t want to do this anymore, and now I’ve got to find a new way of being”?

SG: Yeah, I mean, I didn’t do anything at first. The day you retire, you think, “Thank God, no one’s making me do this anymore,” because it was a job for me back then. For a few months, I didn’t do much, and I didn’t feel very good about myself. I put on weight. Someone described your heart as a muscle, and if you don’t work it, it turns to fat. I thought, “Oh, hang on a minute!” So, exercise became less about how good I could get my body to look and more about how it made me feel as an individual and how it supported me through the day.

It was very different, and it took a while to adjust and adapt. My husband was also involved in athletics, and he really struggled—and still does. We’ve got three boys, and all of a sudden, they can run faster than us, lift more in the weights room, and do all these things. It’s been a real adjustment. It’s been challenging but also interesting. I’ve found a place where I feel comfortable, and I’m helping others feel comfortable in their own worlds too. It’s much more about prevention now—thinking about what I can put in place that will help when I’m elderly or have grandchildren. I want to stay as physically active as possible and not rely on others.

PS: You mentioned people hating exercise and coming to you for advice. Is that something you hear a lot?

SG: Oh, absolutely, yes. At Life’s Hurdles, which currently focuses on women aged 45 to about 65 or 73—we’ll include men eventually—we see people who haven’t done much in their lives. They’re starting to notice that their muscles are getting weaker and less mobile. You read about things like muscle loss starting naturally around age 35, which is quite scary. You start to realise the links between weight, health issues like diabetes, cancer, and Alzheimer’s.

People often say, “I’ve never liked exercise, but I need to look after myself now. Where do I start?” That’s the challenge I enjoy helping with. It has to fit into your life. We’re all still working, often with elderly parents to care for or kids coming and going from university. We’re looking after everyone else but not ourselves. My focus is on helping people help themselves in a way that works for them

PS: I think for me, it hit me around—I always think it was around 47 or 48—yes, that time, yeah. When you suddenly think, actually, I’m starting to feel a bit old now. Up to that point, no problem, you talk about it, but then suddenly you think, actually, yeah, like you said, your muscles are getting weaker, backache, all that sort of stuff. You read a lot about movement and being physically active as opposed to actually training. By training, I mean, I don’t know, going to the gym, training harder.

To your mind, obviously, there is a difference physically between doing these things. But is it the case that people of our age should be going to the gym, or is it more about being active, like in the Blue Zones? Just being active rather than sedentary—how important do you think that is as opposed to actual training?

SG: I think it’s really important, and it’s that lifestyle piece. Most people who come to me have very pressurised jobs. They’re sitting at a desk all day, working long hours with little movement. We always say that the biggest change within your body comes from just getting up and being active—going for a walk, moving around, getting away from your desk. Do 10 minutes here, 20 minutes there, walk the dog in the morning, go out for lunch—just keep moving.

When you go to a gym, yes, it is important to work on your muscles because that keeps you strong and prevents injuries. So many people say, “I’ve got backache, shoulder pain, or knee aches,” and much of that is because we’re not strong enough in our bodies to support our ligaments, cartilage, and so on. So yes, it’s really important. But I would say probably 20% of the benefit comes from formal exercise—whether it’s going for a run, a bike ride, or anything else. The other 80% comes from just being physically active: walking, taking the stairs, just not sitting all day.

That’s where we start with most people, especially those who’ve never liked gyms. One of the first things we say is, “You don’t have to go to the gym.” If you hate it, don’t go. I find gyms quite daunting myself. Plus, people often say it takes too much time—an hour or more. But as we age, we actually need less exercise. For instance, lifting weights in your living room for 20–25 minutes three times a week is absolutely brilliant. And getting an average of 8,000 steps a day is fantastic. Those steps can come from gardening, hoovering, washing the car—just being active.

PS: Is that what being active looks like for you personally? Do you go to the gym?

SG: Yes, I do. But, as I said, I’ve really had to change. In my 40s, we kept running, did the London Marathon, and did RideLondon. But by the time I hit 50—and I’m 58 now—I had to adjust. I still go out on my mountain bike, but it’s more about socialising. My runs are slow, often with the dog. My bike rides are about spending time with a friend. It’s a chance to chat, and I find it a great way to really open up.

I think a lot of men find that too. My husband, for example, prefers a gentle bike ride and a chat over sitting in a café or having lunch somewhere. My aerobic exercise now is much more about mental health. It puts me in a great space, helps me think more clearly, and boosts my productivity. It’s my “thinking time.”

I also go to the gym and have a coach. I think everyone should have a coach—someone you’re accountable to and who sets a proper programme. If I went into the gym on my own, even though I know what to do, I’d end up wandering around aimlessly. I much prefer having someone—actually, it’s my eldest son—giving me the orders and telling me what to do.

Having a programme, or even following a live workout online, makes it so much easier. It doesn’t have to be long—just 20 minutes in your living room is enough. We do things like 12 squats while waiting for the kettle to boil, press-ups against the kitchen counter, simple bodyweight exercises.

The key is consistency. Don’t just say, “I walked a lot today,” and then do nothing for the next five days. It’s about building small, manageable habits into your lifestyle. You can still enjoy your social life, just not all the time. Those little adjustments help shift your mindset and make this a way of life. It takes time, but it’s achievable. You’ll be amazed at how much better you sleep, how much more energy you have, and how much less grumpy you feel. It’s really important.

PS: I think what you’re saying about mental wellbeing is often overlooked when we talk about physical health. I get a lot of messages from men aged 45 to 55 who are struggling mentally—like you said, with maintaining a positive mindset. I don’t know their individual circumstances, but I get the impression that being more active, getting outdoors, and moving could help so much. But it’s often overlooked.

SG: Oh, massively. Everybody goes through a shift. I’ve seen it in all our group of friends. People feel bored in their jobs, start thinking about retirement and pensions, or feel tired from working so hard. Testosterone levels naturally drop too, which adds to the challenge.

I think it’s also a time when people end up drinking too much in the evenings—trying to drown their sorrows or help themselves sleep. But that can become a vicious circle. To break out of it, yes, get help if you need it, but also, just get outside.

I’ve noticed it with my husband. He’s a national coach and recently came back from an intense five weeks in Paris. He was exhausted from everyone asking things of him. When he got home, we made a point of getting him out of bed in the morning, taking the dog for a walk, and appreciating nature. Within a week, I could see the shift in him.

Sometimes life feels like a washing machine spinning round and round, and we don’t know which way to turn. Getting outside, walking, and appreciating what’s around you can make such a difference. I know it’s harder in winter, but even walking pads at home or prioritising walks on weekends can help.

The NHS now prescribes walking and physical activity as a first line of treatment for mental health issues, and it’s one of the best things to try.

PS: You mentioned earlier about muscle tone and how it starts deteriorating after the age of 35, which is a bit scary in itself. Can you explain a bit more about why we need to exercise more as we go through our 40s and into our 50s? Personally, I felt roughly the same up until I hit 50, but what’s the importance of exercise as we age?

SG: The exercise part is crucial, especially things like weight training. That could mean using body weight, resistance bands, or, ideally, lifting weights. I believe lifting weights is one of the most important things we can do for prevention. When our muscles weaken, we struggle to get up stairs, out of chairs, and deal with everyday movements.

I’ve had serious back problems from my hurdling days, but I know that if I keep my back and core strong, those issues are completely under control—touch wood. I want to be able to move a sofa or do similar tasks, and weightlifting helps with that. It also improves our metabolism, helping to burn fat faster, particularly the visceral fat that builds up around our stomachs. That type of fat is the dangerous kind that can lead to diabetes and other health issues as we age.

It’s really about prevention and ensuring we can live actively into our 80s and 90s. Medicine is amazing now, keeping us alive longer, but I believe in aiming for a good “health span” rather than just a lifespan. That means being able to walk to the shops or climb stairs in old age rather than being housebound. In my 50s, that’s my focus. Many of my friends in their 60s are starting to face health issues, which has made them reconsider their habits. It’s never too late to get out there, be active, and lift weights to support the structure of our bodies.

PS: The whole preventative aspect is really important. Do you talk to people in their early 40s, before they’ve experienced that midlife transition, about exercising not just for now but for 30 years down the line?

SG: Yes, and even people in their 30s. Younger generations today are more aware of health and wellness, using tools like wearable devices to track sleep and activity. They’re quite savvy about this sort of thing. For our generation, in our 50s and 60s, the focus is more on encouraging people to realise it’s not too late to make small changes.

I encourage people to prioritise exercise in their week. It should be as important as any meeting or phone call. Plan where your 20-minute weight session or walk will fit in. Build small, consistent changes into your life, and they can make a big difference over time.

PS: How does all this tie into a broader view of wellbeing? You’ve mentioned physical health, but you also cover things like sleep, nutrition, and even meditation. How do these aspects interconnect?

SG: I think of it as the “1% improvements.” When I was running, every little detail counted. There’s no point in doing loads of exercise if you’re eating rubbish or only getting two or three hours of sleep a night. It’s about balancing all those pieces.

For me, it comes down to calories in versus calories out. If you eat loads of junk, even with exercise, you’ll put on weight. But I also believe in making it work for your life. I still enjoy drinks with friends and a Sunday roast, but I aim for that to be 20% of my week, with the other 80% focused on healthier habits.

Protein is particularly important as we age, so I think about how to include it in every meal. This supports muscle health, which in turn helps with sleep and energy levels. It’s all interconnected—if you exercise, you sleep better, and that creates a positive cycle.

On the mental side, I struggle to stop and relax. I’ve tried meditation but find it hard to stick with. Instead, I’ve found other tools like an infrared sauna, cold showers, and breathwork. Cold showers give me a positive boost in the morning, and breathwork helps me manage stress—it’s something I can do anywhere, even on a train.

I always tell people to find what works for them. It doesn’t have to be the same for everyone, but having a plan and fitting these small habits into your week can make a big difference.

PS: I’ve started cold showers myself over the last six to nine months, mainly to shift my mindset and be more positive. It’s not pleasant, but it does give you a lift in the morning. I also do breathwork in the car after dropping the kids off—it’s about fitting these things into your routine without needing extra time.

SG: Exactly. Some people are morning people; others prefer evenings. For me, a morning routine really helps set up my day. Even if I’m not motivated to exercise, I tell myself to do just 10 minutes—it’s better than nothing. Sometimes, just putting on your gym kit can be enough to get you moving later in the day.

My morning routine often includes a glass of water, a cold shower, exercise, and then a protein-rich meal before sitting down to work. Those little habits help create a positive start to the day.

Breaking bad habits is also important. A few years ago, my routine involved crisps, a glass of wine, and prepping dinner every evening. Now I’ve swapped the wine for kombucha and the crisps for something healthier like carrots and hummus.

It’s about pausing and asking yourself if you really need that chocolate bar after dinner. Maybe have two squares instead of the whole thing. Small changes like these allow you to enjoy life without derailing your goals. If you have a bad day, it’s fine—just get back on track the next day.

PS: I think those habit things are quite interesting. Personally, I believe you get to your 40s and 50s, and, like you say, you’ve developed habits over the last 20 years—whether it’s prepping food and having, in my case, a beer while prepping Sunday dinner or something similar. It’s just habit. Do you find that when you talk to clients, you uncover a lot of that and think, “Okay, we need to break these habits”?

SG: Absolutely. There’s a lot of comfort eating, especially in the winter—I get it. A lot of the women we’ve worked with have been on yo-yo diets for 20 or 30 years and have never exercised. So, for them, it’s about education. We start with helping them understand what they’re eating and how many calories are involved.

For example, I used to think I was eating healthily when I’d grab a bag of mixed nuts while driving to an event—but I’d eat the whole bag, which could be 1,000 calories before I’d even arrived. That’s the educational piece: sometimes we think we’re eating well, but when we look at it closely, we’re not. You might not be eating junk food, but if you’re consuming 4,000 calories a day, you’re going to gain weight.

It’s about understanding balance while still allowing yourself to enjoy things—like having a glass of wine or a takeaway on a Friday night—but not throwing everything away because of it. Many people think, “I’ve ruined it, so I’ll start fresh in January.” But there’s never a perfect time; it’s about making small, consistent changes.

I encourage people to think about their days as red, amber, or green. If you have a “red day” where you’ve eaten poorly, can you make it an “amber day” by having a healthy soup for lunch or adding an extra 1,000 steps? Then there are “green days” when you’ve had a great start, gone for a lovely walk, and had a protein-packed breakfast. It’s about shifting habits gradually.

PS: I’d like to cover a couple of things that are often said about exercise and get your perspective. One I’ve heard a lot is that you should exercise in the morning because exercising in the evening can disrupt your sleep. Is there any truth in that, or does it not matter when you exercise as long as you’re active?

SG: It really depends on the individual. Some people are morning people, others prefer evenings, and for many, it depends on work schedules. The key is to exercise whenever you can fit it in.

That said, if you’re exercising late at night—say, at 8pm—you might find it affects your sleep, especially if you eat afterward. Ideally, you should have a two-hour window before bed to allow your body to settle. Things like keeping your bedroom cool, avoiding phones or emails before bed, and winding down with a book instead of TV can also help with sleep.

I personally prefer morning exercise. It sets me up for the day, mentally and physically. I’ve already been to the gym this morning, and it’s given me a great start. But it’s very personal. Some people like lunchtime workouts, others prefer late afternoon. The most important thing is to do something.

PS: That was going to be my next point. For someone with a desk job who’s moving around a bit—taking a 20-minute walk at lunchtime but not doing what we’d call “exercise”—should they make an effort to exercise?

SG: Yes, definitely. While walking is fantastic—especially for those starting out—you also need to look after your muscles and cardiovascular health. We often start people with walking, encouraging them to pick up the pace a bit. Many progress to a cross-trainer or stationary bike and begin working in what we call “zone two.” This is where you’re slightly out of breath but can still hold a conversation.

Zone two is a great, healthy place to exercise. It improves cardio health and helps oxygenate the brain. But it’s also about balance. If you’re running or cycling excessively, you may burn a lot of calories, which can lead to overeating. It’s not always the case that more exercise is better.

I’d recommend two weight sessions a week for muscle strength, two zone two cardio sessions for about 40 minutes, and one more intense session (zones three or four) for a short duration. But rest is just as important.

PS: That’s interesting—rest doesn’t get talked about much.

SG: Exactly. Rest is where your muscles recover and build. It’s vital for health. A rest day doesn’t mean doing nothing—it could be a gentle walk, some stretching, or mobility work, like keeping your hips mobile or balancing on one leg while brushing your teeth. Little things like that can make a big difference.

PS: Speaking of balance, I’ve read that standing on one foot for as long as possible each day is great for your core and brain. Is that something you encourage?

SG: Absolutely. Balance is one of the first things to go as we age, so it’s crucial to work on it. My current challenge is putting my socks on while standing—if I can keep doing that, I’ll be happy! It’s these small challenges that keep us improving and embracing life.

PS: And, as you said, it’s not just about now—it’s about setting yourself up for the future. One last thing: you’ve mentioned 8,000 steps a day. The common advice is 10,000. Is there a reason for this figure, and how does it tie into movement?

SG: The step target depends on the individual. For someone who’s never been active, starting with 5,000 steps a day is a huge achievement. For others, 10,000 or even 12,000 might be realistic. It’s about what works for them.

We aim for an average over the week rather than hitting a specific number every day. You might walk 12,000 steps on the weekend but fewer during the week—that’s fine. The key is consistency and finding ways to move, even in winter.

PS: Finally, if someone is listening—a 45-year-old man feeling fine now but wanting to set himself up for the best life over the next 30–40 years—what’s your one piece of advice?

SG: I would say, get into weights. I really think it’s important, no matter who you are. Don’t feel like you have to go to a gym if you hate it. This isn’t about bodybuilding or how you look—it’s about being strong. We want you to be strong in your body and your mind. Every time you do a bicep curl or an overhead press, you’re engaging your core and working on that overall strength, which is so beneficial.

I’d also say, make sure there’s movement in your day. Don’t just sit at your desk through lunch—get up, go for a walk, or take a stroll to grab your lunch. Build little movements into your day.

Incorporate some cardio as well. Do something that gets you out of breath, even if it’s not for long. And find something you enjoy—whether it’s a spin class, a brisk walk, or something else. The key is to enjoy what you’re doing. When you love it, you’re more likely to stick with it.

On top of that, educate yourself about your food and how you deal with stress. Stress is a big part of life. It’s unavoidable, but it can be managed. Stress can even be beneficial at times—on the running track, I performed my best when I was a bit nervous and stressed. But it’s about finding a balance and not letting it overwhelm you.

Find ways to manage stress that work for you—whether it’s breathwork, having a cup of tea with a colleague, or a moment of mindfulness. All these small, simple changes add up over time. You don’t need to overhaul everything at once.

OUTRO

PS: You can find out more about Sally’s wellbeing services at sallygunnell.com.

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Next week, I’m talking to William Porter, author of Alcohol Explained, about what you need to know about the physical and mental impacts of drinking in midlife.

William Porter: I’m not here to tell people to drink less or stop drinking altogether, but I do believe people should have the information they need to make informed decisions. There’s definitely a huge knowledge gap when it comes to alcohol.

PS: See you then.